connecting*the*dots

11 Responses to “next week, it’ll be “mothers against bloggers”…”  

1. 1 darkmoon May 5th, 2006 at 11:27 am

   While I don’t support illegal immigrants, anyone that supports the Minutemen ought to be ashamed. The founder himself has denounced the group based on it allowing KKK and neo-Nazi group involvement which was totally against what they were doing before (which was helping Border Patrol secure the border itself). Now there’s a whole range of messed up things going on with that group.

2. 2 darkmoon May 5th, 2006 at 11:30 am

   Oh yeah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project should have more info on it for those that don’t know.

3. 3 Sean Coon May 5th, 2006 at 11:34 am

   if illegal immigrants were sneaking into the country and faking out the employers that provide them jobs, i’d be 100% against this movement. but this country rather enjoys the benefits of cheap labor at any cost to the collective health of the nation (security, legal immigration, tax burdens, etc.)… if the immigrants are illegal, so are their employers. if we get rid of one, we should jail the other.

   i’m tired of people tip-toeing around this aspect of the issue. shit or get off the pot.

4. 4 Sean Coon May 5th, 2006 at 11:37 am

   yeah, the minutemen project was an obvious draw for wife-beater wearing, out of work guys that were tired of shooting old beer bottles.

5. 5 darkmoon May 5th, 2006 at 11:45 am

   I agree. The employers should take a heavy beating also. :p Only reason I can’t support them, no matter the cause, is because of two things. 1) all of my family came here through legal means. It was long, dreary, and in the first year of marriage, my mother could not follow my father due to both visa and financial constraints, but they still did it as did my immediate relatives. 2) Politicians want to support this, but they cut H1B work visas? That’s the same visas that allows educated individuals from overseas to work for corporations here. Corporations sponsor the individual and pay a lot of money to have them here.

   Because of those reasons, I can’t support a cause that has us creating a larger rift by making the wealthy, wealthier, and importing labor workers while banning well-educated workers. Either let all in, or don’t let any in. This wishy-washy crap is what makes it sickening.

6. 6 Sean Coon May 5th, 2006 at 11:57 am

   we’re on the same page. i have many friends from s. korea, bangladesh, china, france, who have done everything by the books, and after 9/11, were penalized for it. but in the end — whether the labor is educated or not — the rules should apply just the same. the same to the immigrant population and the same to the employers.

   my big picture gut feeling is that this country has historically thrived on cheap labor (read: slavery), so it’s imbedded in our cultural morality to set up such a hypocritical system. the dancing around the issue only makes in painfully obvious.

7. 7 Jay Ovittore May 5th, 2006 at 10:58 pm

   I am on board with the employer thing. As a small business owner, I will never discriminate against anyone when I hire, but I will need documentation of legal status. As a painting contractor, I’ve been bitching about this problem for a while.

   I have mentioned solutions to my Congressman. I have talked about this with my state house rep. Bottom line, if they were to enforce a heafty fine, say $100,000 per offense, this madness would stop. I have no problem with legal immigrants at all, I do have a problem with anyone who breaks the law,hence “illegal”.

   This guest worker program that his Imperialness has proposed was best summed up by Michelle Martin(ABC News) on Bil Maher last week, “We had a guest worker program in this country once, it was called slavery.” I agree.

8. 8 Tony Herrera May 5th, 2006 at 11:43 pm

   I understand the concerns expressed by OTM’s (other than Mexican) immigrants and some of the points Darkmoon makes are valid. However the reality is that Mexico/US realtions have historically been quite complicated.

   There are several historical incidents that contribute to the uniqueness of the US/Mexico relationship. The historical incidents greatly contribute to the high levels of illegal immigration from Mexico to the US.

   First, the Mexican American War which led to the loss of nearly half of Mexico’s territory to the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_American_War

   Second, the heavy migration patterns that were established by the Bracero program. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero.

   Lastly, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 which provided amensty to some 5-6 million undocumented immigrants, most of them Mexicans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

   Let’s face it many will criticize a seeming favoritism displayed by our government towards Mexicans. However, that is inevitable given both countries shared history.

   Nevertheless, a simple solution to the immigration problem has always existed. But, beware the solution removes cheap labor (read: slavery) from the equation as Sean points out. Any solution that removes cheap/slave labor from the equation will be fought “tooth and nail” by agriculture/farming and big business.

   Also, most Americans take for granted the benefits they enjoy everyday from the goods and services which are brought to them so cheaply, precisely because of cheap immigrant labor.

   But, hey here is an idea: Enact a workable guest worker program which provides all of the existing undocumented immigrants a temporary work permit. The work permit should allow them to seek and secure employment in the open labor market and not just with a sponsoring employer, thus you weed out unscrupulous employers, who only want to prey on immigrant laborers. Provide such workers equal protections under the law, including the right to file grievances and join unions. Lastly provide an earned right towards legal residency and eventual US citizenship.

   What a better incentive for millions of newly minted Americans for them to be, “upstanding-tax-paying-God-fearing-law-abiding-citizens” than to dangle them the future coveted prize that is US Citizenship.

   It’s the American thing to do. I just keep working, pay my taxes and keep my “nose clean” and I get to be a permanent citizen of the greatest country on the face of this planet.

9. 9 Sean Coon May 5th, 2006 at 11:55 pm

   that makes sense to me.

   in essense, it places everyone with good intentions in the same line as the rest of the immigrant population.

   but tony, you’re smoking some of that proposed legal ganja if you think that *anyone* in washington will make a decision that places these men and women in a position to join a union… or the unthinkable; vote.

10. 10 Tony Herrera May 6th, 2006 at 12:15 am

    In the past I’ve been known to smoke a bit of “legal ganja”, but, trust me I never “inhaled”. Really. ; )

11. 11 Arnold Coby May 15th, 2006 at 2:00 pm

    Arnold Coby 04/24/06
    1718 North Thompson Dr.
    Bayshore NY, 11706

    Dear : President Bush, Senator McCain, John Faso, Trent Lott

    I understand immigration is a very important issue.
    My family came to United State in 1947. We came here legally. My father waited years for us to get a permanent visa to come to this country. I’ll tell you about Government Waste, all these illegal immigrants who did not respect our laws and came to this country and draining our Government funds, they get Hospital service , welfare, schools, for free, and do not pay any tax’s. Citizens living in this country can get these kinds of help, we have to pay. I like to know why we have to make any life here great for them, and remember these illegal immigrants do not vote we do. My family came here legally, I served in the united State Army all my family became US citizens legally . Why you the people who were voted by the Citizens of this country are afraid of these illegal immigrants? They violated our laws and they can‘t be rewarded for that. So if you want us to help you fight Government Waste, start cleaning up these illegal immigrants then you can ask me to help you . Now we need your help. I’m proud to be an American Citizen legally. Noted I did not speak of the illegal immigrants who drain our Courts Systems , some never pay for there crimes they just go back to there native countries and the victims never received justice. Remember No one who votes for these illegal immigrants will be elected or re-elected look at the national polls. I would like to have all their names published. I wait for your respond.

    CC: Geralido Rivera

    Thank you Arnold Coby