connecting*the*dots

11 Responses to “a common perspective on questioning authority?…”  

1. 1 Lex Aug 7th, 2006 at 12:43 pm

   I might or might not assume that, depending on the leader and depending on the subject — does the leader have a record of trying to do the right thing (as YOU understand the right thing to be)? Is the subject one on which this leader has some specialized knowledge, or one in which this leader has been demonstrably right, or demonstrably wrong, in the past? Etc.

2. 2 Sean Coon Aug 7th, 2006 at 1:04 pm

   well, that’s how i think, but the last time i had lunch with cara michele, she said very similar things regarding the concept of “authority” and being a good christian. essentially (cm, please correct my paraphrasing if necessary) her stance is that leaders are in their position for a reason (god), so we should support and pray for them as much as possible to help them lead.

   obviously, i think that’s a bunch of baloney. it sounds like the foundation for a caste system. but CM considers stressing opinions on such matters (policy decisions) as being arrogant and disrespectful of the office (of president, for example)… i just wonder if this is where the foundation for much of the conservative perspective comes from (not that they’re not quick to offer opinions contrasting leadership)

3. 3 Lex Aug 7th, 2006 at 1:13 pm

   Without actually going and looking it up, I think that’s from one of the epistles attributed to the apostle Paul. It was used to justify royalty, and it’s been responsible for a disproportionate share of human mischief: Even today, conservative Christians use it as an argument for supporting Bush (although they sure seemed to be ignoring it back when Clinton was president).

   Yeah, you give a leader the benefit of the doubt absent additional information, is how I take it. But I *don’t* take it as a divine order to tolerate crap, should crap materialize.

4. 4 Sean Coon Aug 7th, 2006 at 1:26 pm

   i concur, 100%

5. 5 Cara Michele Aug 7th, 2006 at 2:15 pm

   Can I get in on this, since it’s about me? ;)

   Romans 13:1-7: God established authority and that Believers are to live under it.

   1 Tim 2:1-2: Believers are are to pray for our leaders.

   I don’t know what a “good Christian” is. I never hear actual Christians using that term. ;)

   Sean, you assume that because I don’t engage an issue in the public arena that I must just be blindly following along… Not so. I do things differently. But that’s OK. ;)

   I discuss EVERYTHING that goes on around the world –Iraq, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, etc., every day with my Christian friends and family. (You have no idea…) We DO question authority and policy, and we discuss, we dialogue, we PRAY. But we also share a Biblical worldview and a belief that Scripture is the infallible Word of God and final authority in all things. And even as we question, we seek to do so respectfully and prayerfully, and to seek solutions that are God-honoring. Sean, with respect, I can’t have those same discussions with you, because you don’t share that worldview, and it would be as if we were speaking different languages.

   My whole life is not lived in the blogosphere. Or at a restaurant. ;)

6. 6 Sean Coon Aug 7th, 2006 at 2:35 pm

   funny… you were pretty open with me about saying that the vast majority of christians don’t live by the word of jesus. is that not a statement about “good christians” (or bad ones)?

   cm, i’m not assuming anything. i know you’re well informed. i know you discuss topical issues with your friends. you’d rather not extend that conversation outside the realm of your private discussions, which to me is an exercise of frustration. i debate issues with friends and family in the real, but then i continue to shape my opinion online as well, by reading other perspectives and contributing my own to the fray.

   it’s funny… in offering my opinion on events or issues, if they contradict a leadership position, then i’m arrogant and disrespectful based on your worldview. and because we don’t share the same worldview, you can’t have those discussions with me in the first place because we speak completely different languages…

   so, here’s a question for you: how do you have a conversation with a homeless man who’s not a christian?

7. 7 Cara Michele Aug 7th, 2006 at 5:53 pm

   Sean, my (prayerful) response:

   “funny… you were pretty open with me about saying that the vast majority of christians don’t live by the word of jesus. is that not a statement about “good christiansâ€? (or bad ones)?”

   No, it wasn’t. In my experience, lots of people self-identify as “Christian.” But far fewer say they live to follow, obey and serve Jesus Christ, according to the teaching of the Bible. That’s the point I was making.

   “cm, i’m not assuming anything. i know you’re well informed. i know you discuss topical issues with your friends. you’d rather not extend that conversation outside the realm of your private discussions, which to me is an exercise of frustration. i debate issues with friends and family in the real, but then i continue to shape my opinion online as well, by reading other perspectives and contributing my own to the fray.”

   I apologize, sincerely, for frustrating you. I think the best way to expand on what I was trying to say above is to point you to this passage.

   “it’s funny… in offering my opinion on events or issues… then i’m arrogant and disrespectful…”

   Please read the comment on my blog again. That was clearly self-directed and not about you.

   “so, here’s a question for you: how do you have a conversation with a homeless man who’s not a christian?”

   I think you know me well enough to know the answer to that. I love everybody. I love to talk to everybody. Anywhere. If you mean, how do I have a conservation with a homeless person (who isn’t a Christian) about my opinions on foreign policy in Israel and Lebanon in light of Scripture? Well… that one hasn’t come up yet. ;)

   Peace, CM

8. 8 Ben Holder Aug 9th, 2006 at 6:08 pm

   the reality of it is…prayer does dick…god aint listneing to george bush…she aint helping people score touchdowns…she aint sending angels down to protect us…people always need something to pretend about…cuz the real world is too hard…so…people pray about it…it would be the same results if christians chewed a card board box instead….ever prayed and held onto to someone as they died…kinda sux when they die…god has a plan though right???? try telling that to a two year old.

9. 9 Sean Coon Aug 9th, 2006 at 6:14 pm

   i’m pretty much in agreement across the board, ben.

10. 10 Cara Michele Aug 10th, 2006 at 9:48 pm

    I commented in a thread over at Ed’s place that I was glad you two were finally going to meet because you have so much in common. I guess I had no idea how much, huh?

11. 11 Sean Coon Aug 10th, 2006 at 11:07 pm

    apparently not… hugs! ;)