Violence Begets More Violence?
(originally uploaded by anotherview)
Times Herald-Record
We came, we saw, we made enemies
By Nicole Belle
[…]
Short version: Iraq wasn’t a terrorist threat when we attacked it; it is now because we did attack and botched the job so badly that terrorists are dying to go there and learn how to kill Americans anywhere. So the world is safe from Saddam (who was never a threat) but more vulnerable to terrorism, which (back to the beginning) was on the ropes in the early days in Afghanistan.
* * *
This NIC report, revealed this week in stories in The New York Times and Washington Post, is devastating to the Bush administration argument for continuing the fight in Iraq. John Negroponte, Bush’s national intelligence director and the boss of all 16 intelligence agencies, cautions not to form conclusions based solely on these news reports. There’s more to the assessment, he says, and many more judgments than the one linking the war to more terrorism. He says to do that would be a distortion.
Fine. Then release the 30-page National Intelligence Estimate for all Americans to read. Have congressional committees black out the really classified data, if necessary. But let us know what our intelligence agencies say firsthand, not what Bush decides to tell us they said. We’ve been here before, and there are now 2,600-plus reasons to doubt what the president says.
[…]
Someone, anyone, come up with a scenario for me where invading Iraq wouldn’t have created a similar state of affairs.
Take your time…
Now, it probably would’ve helped if we had taken this operation seriously and created a reconstruction plan before trucking into Iraq, but as Donald Rumsfeld so eloquently stated in the pre-war planning stages, “the American public will not back us if they think we are going over there for a long war.”
The result of such rhetoric, you ask?
Rumsfeld intimidated his planners out of creating any plans for reconstruction following the capture of Saddam — you know, these last 3 years come December.
Now we have jihadists and near enemy soldiers training and killing in the sandbox of our creation, using Iraqi citizens as pawns, targets and propaganda to rile up even more anti-American fury across the middle-east and the world.
But I digress…
Here are my three top reasons for why Iraq has become a hotbed of terrorist activity:
- The Project For The New American Century
If PNAC is the neoconservative playbook, this administration is an all-pro team for its execution. If I stumbled across this direct and coded language for the invasion of Iraq (and anywhere else for that matter) just ten days into the Iraq invasion, I’m betting that this document has been used by a few terrorists to up their enrollment prior to 9/11. And as soon as the invasion of Iraq was a sure bet, I’m guessing it became a major recruitment tool. The only reason I can come up with as to why (potential) leaders of this nation would publicize a document such as PNAC, is that they wanted the reality we now find ourselves knee-deep within and they needed their own recruitment stake-in-the-ground. - Poverty, Chaos And Fear: A Perfect Storm For Revenge
If a child is killed in Iraq nowadays, we’re ultimately held responsible by his/her family. If a child’s father is killed, that child will most likely grow up with a propensity towards revenge. If a child’s uncle’s wedding is wiped out with a car bomb… well, you get the picture. - Let’s Talk About Sects, Baby
Compare how much you know about, say, the Shia/Sunni relationship today with what you knew in 2003. You probably didn’t even know the names of any Islamic sects back then, right? And now I hope you realize that there is more internal conflict within Islam itself than with the West in general. Now realize that our government absolutely understood the issues between these sects — from their religous differences to their standing within the entire middle-east region to how they would respond to the overthrow of Saddam. I’m not cynical; if you believe we went in there without a clue, you’re only kidding yourself.
What are yours?
Tags: 9 11, activism, Afghanistan, America, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush, intelligence, Iraq War, Israel, neoconservative, New World Order, NIC, PNAC, politics, Saddam Hussein, terrorism, The Long War.
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ok…instead of instantly wanting to build Iraq back and give it to them….
If we were going to go then we go and wipe it clean….kill anyone carrying a gun that was not us. Burn our flag…kill’em…carrying a bomb…yep…gun..yep…nasty signs…yep…. Make our position clear…..
Next—Repeat the same in Iran—wipe it clean…start over…
Next—Combine the two countries and make them our next state….
Finally— Call the new state….drum roll…… “IRECKON”
We would have all the oil we need, democracy in the region, and a new state to add to our great nation.
….well…I have not seen others with new ideas….(smile)
Have a great weekend,
and we wonder why people think americans are stupid?
….Only those that lack a sense of humor…wonder why….
IRECKON….that was good stuff…
On a much more serious note I heard that the slime said that they had lost 4,000 in Iraq….not Afghanistan….Iraq. Read it here–http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6111850,00.html
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - The new leader of al-Qaida in Iraq said in an audio message posted on a Web site Thursday that more than 4,000 foreign insurgent fighters have been killed in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. It was believed to be the first major statement from insurgents in Iraq about their losses.
Though I supported attacking Iraq in the beginning based on the poliTICKS and talkinHEADS…I like many others have had many second thoughts.
My mind was pretty much made up that we were/are simply in the middle of their civil war until this report was released. It casts a very different light and I guess one that could identify an excellent reason for our presence. In the same article the new leader asks for scientists to help make dirty bombs.
Did we bring the war on terror to where the terrorists are? I don’t know but according to their new leader…they are there in large numbers.
BTW…..Great Post!
Your thoughts?
meb, this is essentially a press release:
* 4,000 dead insurgents
* freelance contractors needed to kill americans
that article shouldn’t affect your position on this war; it should fill in some basic gaps of information.
as to your question of were there terrorists over there before we went in… i’m sure there were to some degree, but it wasn’t al qaeda and bin laden. but now al qaeda is in iraq… and they’re getting in practice on innocent people (stoking the fire of sectarian violence) and our troops. and no matter how much of a god complex we have, there’s *no way* to keep terrorism within the field of play in iraq.
Yeah great post, Sean. In my humble opinion, the whole goings-on in Iraq has the likings of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Mess with people long enough they’re bound to hit you back. It’s a vicious cycle yeah.
Sure there have been ‘radical elements’ just as there are radical elements everywhere, but the pressure increases and the more innocent people get blown up by over-proportional methods — the more people get increasingly angry. They will be easily seduced to do more militant stuff.
So the politically driven few, the ‘hard core’, get help by the emotionally driven masses. For their right reasons, hell, their family got blasted away. One can wonder what one would do in that same situation: would you care what the worlds’ view on you as a culture would be, or would you rather let those bastards pay for what they did to your loved ones? Meanwhile — ‘intelligence’ shows certain groups have ties with al-Qaida and whole buildings get blown to bits — back to square one because more and more people get pissed.
This isn’t a war, surely not one ‘on terror’, it’s more like how I used to get rid of ants, pouring chemicals into the ground, so they all run out — pissed — and I could attack ‘m with a blow-torch. o.O (That’s meant to illustrate similarities in the unproportional act and disrespect for life — not to paint you my psychological profile. heh) Anyway, the ‘ants’ rather would just be left alone, I guess, and one shouldn’t have meddled in their businesses in the first place. But that’s an easy thing to say, and not a real solution… Well, that’s what people said about this whole invasion in the first place, but everybody was too upset, too emotional to take note. (Basically, it caused the politcally driven few to get help by the emotionally driven masses — oh how I love parallels.)
And sure, this thing will only get worse; heck, this shall surely spread while governments and businesses constantly continue to prove to everybody that money, and their way of life, is more important than anybody elses’. See, I’m really uncomfortable that my life has to come at the cost of another, day by day, and so should you: we all got blood on our hands and, in the end, we are all responsible for this stuff because we allowed our governments to do so. [Having said that, I’m also really uncomfortable with people that have once supported this war, to now have second thoughts. All nice and dandy and good to see one wise up, but that surely doesn’t help those thousands and thousands of innocents deaths on both sides; because its the support from people like that, that these conspirators in the government needed. But yeah, that’s stinking politics for ya, divide and conquer…]
Anyway, with said blood on our hands, in that respect ‘they’ have got all the right reasons to blow us up. Saying that shouldn’t upset or surprise anyone because I think everybody, deep inside, already knows that, and that feelings of guilt and fear have intertwined from day 1. That’s why everybody’s affraid. That’s why people rather see a whole culture blown up; because we know we are guilty of killing, oppressing and keep pouring gasoline on this explosive situation in the first place. And if we kill ‘that whole culture’, or supress it in some way, the problem is gone, some sort of ‘final solution’, yeh the parallel with WWII is intensional. But I slightly digress.
Yeh, violence surely begets more violence that’s a fact, no matter what the political background and who caused all this. But if we follow the money, I’m sure there’s one group who’ll get to profit from all this…
Anyways, back to happy thoughts, it’s friday today. Have good weekend, you two. :-)
Sean,
I will need more information or opinion than simply ….”this is essentially a press release:”
How do you know if ” i’m sure there were to some degree, but it wasn’t al qaeda and bin laden.” is a true statement? Based on the press, national news, release of information from Washington…. You and I will only ever hear what is intended.
Like you and I have heard many times…why we went in is no longer the question…what is the best course for the future?
Nav,
Termites don’t want to be bothered either…which I believe draws a better correlation than ants.
yep…have a great weekend
@meb: well, i really don’t know what to say about a death count of foreign insurgents — 4,000 of them dead, close to 3,000 of us dead… we’re winning? oh yeah, more than 60,000 dead iraqis… uhm, do over? again it’s information, but it doesn’t do much for me outside of that…
as for the craiglist style job offer from Abu Ayyub al-Masri… i see it as evidense that iraq has evolved to the point where jihadist resume’s are being submitted. aside from the delivery, that, quite honestly, is pretty scary.
and i like your termite analogy
@navaho: spot on, man. it’s hard for a lot of people to separate themselves from their country or majority ideology long enough to see things for what they are — you obviously don’t have that problem. enjoy the weekend.